Guns in restaurants draw stares but little outcry
Credit: sxc.hu
In Virginia, gun owners are allowed to carry firearms in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, as long as the restaurant permits it and they carry their weapon openly. Legislation to allow concealed weapons in restaurants serving alcohol passed the General Assembly this year, but was vetoed by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.
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Associated Press Writer
Published: May 9, 2008
RESTON, Va. (AP) — The patrons at Champps, an upscale restaurant and bar chain, were eating ribs and drinking beer on a recent Saturday when customer Bruce Jackson stood up and made an announcement: He was armed, and so were dozens of other patrons.
The armed customers stood up in unison, showing off holstered pistols and revolvers. Jackson said a word or two about the rights of gun owners to carry firearms in Virginia, then thanked everyone for their attention and sat down.
And the diners returned to their burgers and Budweisers.
The Virginia Citizens Defense League organized the dinner at Champps to prove a point: that the presence of armed customers in northern Virginia restaurants would elicit little more than shrugs.
The dinner — and several other restaurant visits throughout northern Virginia last month — were a response to comments from the majority leader in the state Senate, Democrat Richard Saslaw, who said during a legislative debate that armed patrons would be unwelcome in northern Virginia restaurants.
“In most urban areas, you walk into a restaurant with a gun on your hip, they’re going to tell you to get out,” Saslaw said.
In fact, with a few exceptions, the gun owners got their meals. The group went to eight different restarants in April — at two of them, they were asked to leave. More often than not, though, their presence failed to generate a stir.
All the restaurants were in Fairfax County, a bastion of suburbia and soccer moms outside Washington that is the wealthiest county in America, according to the most recent Census data. It is also a place where nerves over the gun debate are still somewhat raw a year after the shootings at Virginia Tech, where 32 people were slain, including many from northern Virginia.
The restaurants included numerous family establishments including the Fuddruckers burger chain and the McLean Family Restaurant.
“We wanted to prove not only that (Saslaw) was wrong, but we wanted to make the point that we have the right to self defense. That’s a God-given right,” said Dave Vann, a retired D.C. police officer and VCDL member who organized the restaurant visits.
In Virginia, gun owners are allowed to carry firearms in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, as long as the restaurant permits it and they carry their weapon openly. Legislation to allow concealed weapons in restaurants serving alcohol passed the General Assembly this year, but was vetoed by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.
While Virginia is generally considered friendly to gun owners, it is only one of two states along with Montana, that requires people to openly carry arms in restaurants that serve alcohol, according to the Web site opencarry.org, which promotes and monitors gun owners’ rights. Eleven states ban guns altogether in restaurants that serve alcohol, while the rest make no distinction between open and concealed carry.
At Champps, several patrons failed to notice that so many customers were armed, even though dozens of gun-toting men and women had walked right past them.
Tomas Nolasco of Reston said he hadn’t noticed the guns and didn’t care as long as they weren’t drinking. (They weren’t.) His wife was a little more concerned.
“There are families in here, children in here,” Cathy Nolasco said. “It bothers me.”
Brendan Fitzgerald of Reston and his friends noticed the guns immediately. They were curious but unconcerned.
“I’m just laughing because it’s totally unnecessary in my opinion,” Fitzgerald said, pointing to one individual who not only was armed but also had several clips of ammunition attached to his belt.
“This is Reston, not Southeast,” said his friend Nathan Dicken, contrasting the northern Virginia suburb to a section of the District of Columbia that has been known for gun violence.
The gun owners say those patrons’ comments miss the point. Vann said the gun owners’ presence make the restaurant more safe, not less. Champps’ manager — Carey Vereen, a gun-rights supporter — agreed.
“This is an area with a large population of government agents — FBI, CIA, local,” Vereen said. “In terms of people seeing open carry, it’s not a shock to our customers.”
Indeed, many of the men who carry weapons say people frequently just assume they’re police or retired police.
For women who carry, it’s a different story. At one restaurant — Mike’s American Grill — the group had gone essentially unnoticed until a woman in her 20s with a satin-finished, stainless-steel revolver got up from her table.
The restaurant’s manager spotted her and asked the group to either put the guns in their cars or leave. They left.
“When I saw the gun on her hip, I was like, ‘What is going on here?”‘ said the manager, Gabba Kaye, who hadn’t noticed the guns when the group of 20 checked in for their lunch reservation.
Kaye said he hadn’t received complaints from customers, but that the weapons made him uncomfortable. He also said he had been warned by the restaurant’s ownership after word got out that VCDL planned a series of restaurant visits. He was specifically instructed not to allow them service while carrying.
The woman who caught the manager’s attention said the gun always attracts notice.
“Every time I go out, I notice people’s eyes going right here,” said the woman, pointing to her hip. She de-clined to give her full name out of privacy concerns. “It’s interesting because it’s not a reaction of fear. It’s more a reaction of ‘You can’t do that. You can’t carry a gun.’ ... It’s like disdain.”
She said she only recently began carrying a gun after a string of sexual assaults in her Alexandria neighborhood.
The second restaurant that turned the group away was Kilroy’s in Springfield — a restaurant where Saslaw was popular enough to once have a sandwich named after him. The owner also said he had been aware of earlier news reports that the VCDL was planning a series of armed lunches.
“We’d just prefer they not come to the restaurant,” said the owner, Phillip “Pip” Thomas. “I’m sure it would offend some customers.”
Saslaw said he’s not necessarily surprised that VCDL found restaurants in the region that would allow them to dine while armed. But he said that carrying guns is simply not normal behavior in this area.
“What normal person walks around with a gun on your hip? Something’s wrong in your life” if you feel compelled to carry a gun as part of your daily routine, he said.
The gun owners bristle at that stereotype. Nearly 100 people attended the various lunches and dinners, including many retired military personnel. Others were white-collar professionals. While most were white men, the group included blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women.
“This isn’t a bunch of drunk rednecks sidling up to a saloon,” said Christopher Wu, 28, of Alexandria, carrying a Springfield XD45 pistol.
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Reader Reactions
Virtually any Psychologist, who isn’t on the take or crazy themselves, can tell you that fear of weapons is the sickness, not the possession of them. A weapon does nothing without a hand to guide it.
When one fears an object, or is ‘made uncomfortable’ by it, they are really being ‘made uncomfortable’ by the mental conditioning that it, the object, is some how inherently capable of action. This is irrational.
To then take that irrational fear, and allow it to motivate you into forcing your will upon other, disarming them, shows an unwillingness to cure the actual problem, and promote the same helplessness among others.
To develop insults and implications of mental defct through clearly backwards ‘reasoning’ that defies science and logic, is merely an indicator that these neuroses have been taken to an extreme.
I carry a Weapon. I am not interested in ‘looking cool.‘ More often than not, I fear the social insults of the ignorant, prejudiced, jerks who cling to their neurosis and hate to such an extent that they will make such comments.
Notice the distinct correlation to how people react and comment on a person carrying a gun, as racists of 60 years ago reacted to a person with black skin.
All they do is spew hate-speech that has no basis in reality. Talk about how ‘uncomfortable’ they feel, and that they would prefer that ‘people like that’ should go away.
Gun-control/gun-hate is the new racism.
D
I am disheartened to read the comment by damalama because I am reminded of the continued need for firearm education. To quote damalama, “these type of people ... makes them feel important…want attention ...get something dangerous.“ This is just how uneducated this person is, because, “these type of people” are well educated on the use of firearms, taken classes, some are or have been law enforcement, they certainly aren’t wearing guns for attention - many conceal them unless they are in places where alcohol is served and then VA law requires they be carried open. “Makes them feel important” ...why? That is the opinion of damalama. “These type of people” have the right to wear them for protection of themselves, their families and possibly YOU if you are in harm and one of “these type of people” are there believe it or not, would come to your aid before the police could even arrive. “Add the two together…get something dangerous” ...what? Can anyone tell me what you think “these type of people” are going to do? I am a business professional, and a proud grandmother ...I absolutely do not wear a gun for attention nor do I wear one to feel important and when you add the two together let me be the first one to tell you that you DO NOT get something dangerous! You get a business professional who is grandmother, educated in firearms who wants to be able to protect herself from anything that could happen to her in this crazy world. Should I be faced with an attacker, I am trained to be able to use my gun safely, not wildly, and possibly to hold the attacker until police are called. Otherwise, I am attacked or worse. How many reports have you heard and read about - think about it!!
So, I challenge damalama: tell me, “When you add those two together you get something dangerous” just what is it???
First, when did Champp’s become an upscale restaurant?
Senate, Democrat Richard Saslaw is typical. Spout off and then deny it if you are proven wrong. I would also like Saslaw to provide me with a definition that will tell me what normal is.
The sandwich Saslaw had named after him must have been something with Turkey!
I also know Bruce personally. Actually, Bruce is my little brother.
It’s a shame we continue to revisit this topic from the standpoint of either the uneducated, the ignorant or just plain head in the sand citizen. I’m not quite sure which camp Sen. Saslaw is in.
Let’s look at his comments:
1) “In most urban areas, you walk into a restaurant with a gun on your hip, they’re going to tell you to get out,”
Ignorant or head in the sand? I routinely patronize many restaurants, many very high-class in Loudoun and Fairfax (openly carrying) and have NEVER been either asked to leave or even commented on concerning my weapon.
2) “What normal person walks around with a gun on your hip? Something’s wrong in your life if you feel compelled to carry a gun as part of your daily routine,“
Well Senator, what normal person thinks they are protected from the abnormal person everywhere they go? The normal person obeys the law, the abnormal doesn’t. Why a gun on my hip? I’d choose something else but since the criminals carry guns I don’t have much choice. Feel compelled? Yes I do. Because you and your weak laws haven’t done a thing to protect me from those who will kill for nothing more than a chain I might be wearing on my neck. As a prt of my daily routine? You bet. That is exactly why I am comfortable and proficient with my weapon. I guess you’d prefer I carry it once a year? Senator, unfortunately, it is you who have a deluded and abnormal view or head in the sand concerning citizen safety in today’s society. Just ask the surviving victims of VT. I bet any one of them would have given anything to have one single armed person present when Cho showed up.
This comment isn’t from Saslaw, but is equally ignorant: “I’m just laughing because it’s totally unnecessary in my opinion,” It is your opinion, and your RIGHT not to carry but don’t push your opinion onto my RIGHT. For every person that has made this comment, I can clip 1000 news articles of innocent citizens being killed by a criminal with a gun and other articles of citizens successfully defending themselves or another with a gun. My opinion is backed by data in the press and the Department of Justice. Where is your data to support your opinion?
And for the record, I’m a retired military officer with over 25 years of service that has to follow the same rules as any other citizen. I enjoy no special rights. So do I want to see common sense carry laws that allow someone to protect themselves and their family? You betcha.
I had one lady in Costco comment about my gun once. She asked if I was a police officer and I said no ma’am. She asked why I carried a gun and I said, well ma’am, you never know when some crazy will walk in here and start shooting because he was fired yesterday and I just might be the only person who steps in front and keeps his bullet from hitting you. She thought for a moment and said….Thank you.
That’s why I carry. Always have been a public servant, always will be. And there are those like Saslaw who will do their best to inhibit me.
I was the person who orchestrated what has become known as the “Saslaw Lunches & Dinner”. Now that it’s all over I can share a few observations.
Senator Saslaw made it clear, in his remarks, that he did not believe law-abiding citizens had the right to self defense. He forgot that that right is God given and neither he nor anyone else can take it away from anyone.
By his remarks he has shown that he would rather women be subjected to rape robbery and murder than be able to protect themselves. The good Senator would rather fathers watch helplessly as they and their families are subjected to the whims of violent criminals.
The same can be said for Great American Restaurant Company. Their chain, which includes Mike’s American, and Sweetwater Tavern along with 5 others denies you and every other law-abiding citizen the right to protect yourselves under the guise of their staff and customers “feeling” more comfortable and safer. How comfortable and safe do customers and staff “feel” if they are raped, robbed or murdered coming or going to one these establishments? And if it happens what will be the response from Great American? I guarantee you it will be along the lines of “...we abhor violence and issue our condolences”. Thanks a lot. By their actions they are neither great nor do they espouse the virtues of America.
Regarding Bruce Jackson and the announcement he made: there were a number of patrons at the dinner who wondered who all of us were. Management asked that we make the announcement. That is the only reason it was made, not, as one earlier commenter suggested, that we were media w____s.
Whether you enjoy shooting or firearms is irrelevant. This is simply a case of do you believe in the right of self defense. If you do not, fine, that is your right. However, you do not have the right to impose your beliefs on the rest of us any more than we have the right to tell you that you have to own and carry a firearm.
As the manager of Champps said, “...when I see these folks I know they don’t have a criminal record, a DUI or anything of the sort. That’s more than I can say for anyone else here”.
That about sums it up. We’re peaceful, law-abiding folks who hope to NEVER, EVER have to use a firearm against another human being. BUT, if we do, it may be to save your life or a member of your family.
Dave Vann
Alcohol and guns—a match made in heaven.
Damalama -
Logic and facts trump ignorance and emotion. I find your particular blend of ignorance (lack of knowledge) and baseless emotional reaction most unfortunate at a time in our world where so much data/truth is readily available.
To become educated on a particular subject requires effort; however, keeping and open mind does not. You demonstrate by your words that you are neither well informed on the subject nor willing to learn. Your mind is closed and that says it all. What a shame.
Why are you so afraid of your law-abiding neighbors, damalama?
Your statement tells it all: you would rather have the government tell you what to do—and then have the government pick up the pieces after something bad happens happens to you. Rather than take responsibility for your own safety; you’d prefer to gamble that you’re not going to become a statistic.
Even worse, your type people try to force my wife and children to simply hope they’re not going to become a statistic.
It’s interseting that damalama drags out the same old party line. Dozens of states do not repress their citizens’ right to defend their own lives, and hundereds of thousands exercise the right. The result? Decreasing crime rate, NOT ‘something dangerous.‘ I choose to defend my own life, and to contribute to the overall safety of my community by being one of those ‘unknowns’ that cause criminals to ply their trade elsewhere. For those who claim that is paranoia, how do they feel regarding the victims of crime? Are these folks ‘normal’ because they are not prepared against the realities of the world? Their lack of logic is frightening, and they are free to live as they like, just don’t impose your irrationality on me. Your ‘feelings’ are your own responsibility, not the rest of the world’s.

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