Guns in restaurants draw stares but little outcry

Guns in restaurants draw stares but little outcry

Credit: sxc.hu

In Virginia, gun owners are allowed to carry firearms in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, as long as the restaurant permits it and they carry their weapon openly. Legislation to allow concealed weapons in restaurants serving alcohol passed the General Assembly this year, but was vetoed by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.

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RESTON, Va. (AP) — The patrons at Champps, an upscale restaurant and bar chain, were eating ribs and drinking beer on a recent Saturday when customer Bruce Jackson stood up and made an announcement: He was armed, and so were dozens of other patrons.

The armed customers stood up in unison, showing off holstered pistols and revolvers. Jackson said a word or two about the rights of gun owners to carry firearms in Virginia, then thanked everyone for their attention and sat down.

And the diners returned to their burgers and Budweisers.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League organized the dinner at Champps to prove a point: that the presence of armed customers in northern Virginia restaurants would elicit little more than shrugs.

The dinner — and several other restaurant visits throughout northern Virginia last month — were a response to comments from the majority leader in the state Senate, Democrat Richard Saslaw, who said during a legislative debate that armed patrons would be unwelcome in northern Virginia restaurants.

“In most urban areas, you walk into a restaurant with a gun on your hip, they’re going to tell you to get out,” Saslaw said.

In fact, with a few exceptions, the gun owners got their meals. The group went to eight different restarants in April — at two of them, they were asked to leave. More often than not, though, their presence failed to generate a stir.

All the restaurants were in Fairfax County, a bastion of suburbia and soccer moms outside Washington that is the wealthiest county in America, according to the most recent Census data. It is also a place where nerves over the gun debate are still somewhat raw a year after the shootings at Virginia Tech, where 32 people were slain, including many from northern Virginia.

The restaurants included numerous family establishments including the Fuddruckers burger chain and the McLean Family Restaurant.

“We wanted to prove not only that (Saslaw) was wrong, but we wanted to make the point that we have the right to self defense. That’s a God-given right,” said Dave Vann, a retired D.C. police officer and VCDL member who organized the restaurant visits.

In Virginia, gun owners are allowed to carry firearms in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, as long as the restaurant permits it and they carry their weapon openly. Legislation to allow concealed weapons in restaurants serving alcohol passed the General Assembly this year, but was vetoed by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.

While Virginia is generally considered friendly to gun owners, it is only one of two states along with Montana, that requires people to openly carry arms in restaurants that serve alcohol, according to the Web site opencarry.org, which promotes and monitors gun owners’ rights. Eleven states ban guns altogether in restaurants that serve alcohol, while the rest make no distinction between open and concealed carry.

At Champps, several patrons failed to notice that so many customers were armed, even though dozens of gun-toting men and women had walked right past them.

Tomas Nolasco of Reston said he hadn’t noticed the guns and didn’t care as long as they weren’t drinking. (They weren’t.) His wife was a little more concerned.

“There are families in here, children in here,” Cathy Nolasco said. “It bothers me.”

Brendan Fitzgerald of Reston and his friends noticed the guns immediately. They were curious but unconcerned.

“I’m just laughing because it’s totally unnecessary in my opinion,” Fitzgerald said, pointing to one individual who not only was armed but also had several clips of ammunition attached to his belt.

“This is Reston, not Southeast,” said his friend Nathan Dicken, contrasting the northern Virginia suburb to a section of the District of Columbia that has been known for gun violence.

The gun owners say those patrons’ comments miss the point. Vann said the gun owners’ presence make the restaurant more safe, not less. Champps’ manager — Carey Vereen, a gun-rights supporter — agreed.

“This is an area with a large population of government agents — FBI, CIA, local,” Vereen said. “In terms of people seeing open carry, it’s not a shock to our customers.”

Indeed, many of the men who carry weapons say people frequently just assume they’re police or retired police.

For women who carry, it’s a different story. At one restaurant — Mike’s American Grill — the group had gone essentially unnoticed until a woman in her 20s with a satin-finished, stainless-steel revolver got up from her table.

The restaurant’s manager spotted her and asked the group to either put the guns in their cars or leave. They left.

“When I saw the gun on her hip, I was like, ‘What is going on here?”‘ said the manager, Gabba Kaye, who hadn’t noticed the guns when the group of 20 checked in for their lunch reservation.

Kaye said he hadn’t received complaints from customers, but that the weapons made him uncomfortable. He also said he had been warned by the restaurant’s ownership after word got out that VCDL planned a series of restaurant visits. He was specifically instructed not to allow them service while carrying.

The woman who caught the manager’s attention said the gun always attracts notice.

“Every time I go out, I notice people’s eyes going right here,” said the woman, pointing to her hip. She de-clined to give her full name out of privacy concerns. “It’s interesting because it’s not a reaction of fear. It’s more a reaction of ‘You can’t do that. You can’t carry a gun.’ ... It’s like disdain.”

She said she only recently began carrying a gun after a string of sexual assaults in her Alexandria neighborhood.

The second restaurant that turned the group away was Kilroy’s in Springfield — a restaurant where Saslaw was popular enough to once have a sandwich named after him. The owner also said he had been aware of earlier news reports that the VCDL was planning a series of armed lunches.

“We’d just prefer they not come to the restaurant,” said the owner, Phillip “Pip” Thomas. “I’m sure it would offend some customers.”

Saslaw said he’s not necessarily surprised that VCDL found restaurants in the region that would allow them to dine while armed. But he said that carrying guns is simply not normal behavior in this area.

“What normal person walks around with a gun on your hip? Something’s wrong in your life” if you feel compelled to carry a gun as part of your daily routine, he said.

The gun owners bristle at that stereotype. Nearly 100 people attended the various lunches and dinners, including many retired military personnel. Others were white-collar professionals. While most were white men, the group included blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women.

“This isn’t a bunch of drunk rednecks sidling up to a saloon,” said Christopher Wu, 28, of Alexandria, carrying a Springfield XD45 pistol.

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Flag Comment Posted by Vann on May 12, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Crispy Daisy:  Taking your questions/arguments seriatim:  The God given right to carry a gun comes from the God given right to self defense and having the means to defend yourself. No gun, no self defense.

Regarding the right to life, this right, is that you are made in the image of God, and that you have been placed on this earth for His purposes.  Remember that from the bible?

Inalienable rights are those that are granted by our Creator.  Rights cannot be granted by governments.  Privileges are granted by governments - the privilege of voting, driving, etc.  Inalienable rights - those granted by our Creator - the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are ours as human beings naturally.

Remember your history class?  In 1776 Thomas Jefferson said: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

Note the words “...endowed by their Creator…“  Those referenced words and similar thoughts can be found throughout time.

Now, if you are an atheist, we have fundamental differences of opinion and it’s pointless to continue.  You have your beliefs and I have mine.  Otherwise, I think that pretty much covers it.

By the way, just because God gave us rights does not mean that we are to infer that he owes us anything.  It is simply what he has done.  If anything, it should be implied that WE owe him.

Dave Vann

Flag Comment Posted by navywings on May 12, 2008 at 5:33 pm

Cosmo,

Again you display your flawed logic and circular thought. You cite: plane crashes, snake bites, elevator cable breaks, shark attacks. People (and yourself) minimize their risks for activities they participate in (life too). So any surfer who minimizes their risk of shark attack has a phobia? Same for the hiker who carries a snake bite kit?

Please stay on topic too. Is your issue with “uncomfortable as I feel in a society where any psychopathic wacko can buy a gun” or as this topic is centered, with law-abiding citizens exercising their right to defend themselves? We can discuss “uncomfortable as I feel in a society where any psychopathic wacko can buy a gun” if you like but that is a different topic.

What’s your issue again? Wackos or law-abiding citizens? As you seem to keep ascribing the incorrect definition of a phobia (an UNREASONABLE fear) to acts of law abiding citizens to their reasonable preparedness against acts of violence, I’m not sure you’re centered on topic.

Flag Comment Posted by crispy daisy on May 12, 2008 at 1:56 pm

riegnman, I was not referring to what Dave Vann said in the article. I was referring to what he said in the first comment he posted about this story. In his comment, he specifically said that carrying a gun is a God-given right. Unfortunately, the earliest comments posted about this story now seem to be gone.

And, regarding God-given rights, I would love for someone to tell me where in the Bible it says that we have a right to anything, including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness—never mind where it says you have a right to self-defense. God did not give us rights; He gave us rules and obligations for living our lives. To say that He gave us rights is to imply that He felt He owed us something. Any rights we have are conferred by governments, based on what the powers that be feel that its citizens are entitled to.

Flag Comment Posted by Vann on May 12, 2008 at 12:39 pm

Regarding God and guns: What I said was that the right to life, and therefore selfdefense of your life or of anyone else’s is a God given right.  The Constitution and the Second Amendment merely reaffirms that God given right just as they only reafirm the God given right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  In earlier times that right to life was preserved by swords, spears or whatever means was available.  Today it’s firearms.  In the future, who knows?

The carrying of firearms is not a, well, it’s okay here or politically correct here and not there issue.  Those who would rape, rob and murder do not follow those rules.  You find violent crime everywhere, even churches are robbed in the middle of Sunday Service.

Being prepared is not being paranoid, after all, you have insurance on your house but you don’t expect it to burn down!

Those who do not wish to arm themselves have that right and the rest of us should respect that.  However, those folks do not, EVER have the right to tell us that we have to be unprepared and submit to their wishes just because they don’t care for what we believe in.

I’m happiest if I have no unpleasant incounters in my life. But I will be prepared to defend my family if need be.  And I prey that need never arises.

Dave Vann

Flag Comment Posted by riegnman on May 12, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Crispy Daisy,
  I am always surprised how people that don’t have an argument tend to make up facts just so they can be heard.  Nowhere does the article say that it’s a God-given right to carry a gun.  It says that it’s a God-given right to self defense.  Please, if you can’t make a somewhat intelligent argument, then sit on the sidelines and keep quite.

Flag Comment Posted by modernprophet on May 12, 2008 at 9:37 am

We evolved from the weapons maker. Our ancestors probably observed how predators don’t have to graze all day. Find a way to kill something,eat, and you’ve had your protein requirement for the day. Lay around, sun, with the big cats.This inherit trait which guaranteed our existance will eventually lead to our demise. Is beating swords into plowshares a fantasy or a necessity? Carry a gun, die by the gun.

Flag Comment Posted by navywings on May 12, 2008 at 9:34 am

Cosmo,

We’re only using the same logic you are. You obviously assume a motivation for someone who carries a weapon as due to a “Rambo” complex or has a need of a binky. You must live in a very idyllic world. We however, live in a realistic world. Those who carry a wepon do so for a number of reasons. I am retired military and have carried a weapon for my entire adult life. Do I have a “phobia?“ Does a law enforcement officer have a phobia? No, we simply are realists when it comes to society.

I hope you never have to experience first hand that there is no “crime-free” area. I don’t care if it’s church, your home, your office or if you’re sitting in a courtroom. There is no safe place.

Now if you CHOOSE to believe you are always safe and play the “big sky, little airplane” mentality in the context of crime, you are free to do so. If, for the remainder of us, the small percentage statistical chance we many be the victim (or someone around us) of a violent crime is too great for us, then it is our prerogative to protect ourselves as we see fit.

Your logic simply is no logic at all. I respect your right not to carry a weapon as you should respect my decision to carry one. My decision has no impact on your life BUT if you were ever the victim of a violent crime and I was nearby and armed, I would step in to assist you. THAT sir, is the difference between you and I and all those like you who have their head in the sand concerning crime. Crime will not go away, but I have never met an anti-gun, anti-carry or whatever you want to call yourself who would refuse help from one of us “phobic, weapon carrying, Rambos” as you affectionately refer.

Flag Comment Posted by navywings on May 12, 2008 at 8:09 am

Cosmo Wafflefoot:

Your logic is so warped it almost doesn’t warrant a response, but let me show you how flawed your logic is. Do you think the students of VT were afraid? They weren’t. They thought they were protected in their academic haven. According to your “logic” that’s why they didn’t or shouldn’t carry a weapon. Only people who are afraid carry guns (we won’t even discuss law enforcement or military).

Being afraid and prepared are two entirely different postures. Someone who carries a first aid kit in their car by your “logic” is someone who is afraid of dying without proper medical attention arriving. How about the logical view they carry it to help someone in need who might have been in an accident? Nah, doesn’t compute by your “logic.“

Go back to your “pop logic” books and come back when you can discuss the topic on some basis other than fire extinguishers.

Flag Comment Posted by japov on May 11, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Cosmo Wafflefoot,

As much as you might like to believe those things, they are patently not true, and the loose psychology reference only shows that you have little understanding of either guns or psychology. I can’t think of a single person who owns guns, or carries for personal defense, who has done so out of a feeling of ‘inadequacy’.

As Frued said: “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity”

He also said: “Just as no one can be forced into belief, so no one can be forced into unbelief”

So I do not expect that I will be changing anyone’s views with this.

With all due respect, I can assure you that no one that takes self defense seriously minds whether or not you think it’s pathetic.

Flag Comment Posted by crispy daisy on May 11, 2008 at 2:04 pm

I’m not going to get into this argument, but I would love to know how Dave Vann came up with the idea that God gave us the right to carry guns. I must have missed that part of the Bible. I guess it could be because guns didn’t exist for hundreds and hundreds of years after Biblical times. Did God tell someone a couple of hundred years ago to add to the Bible: “P.S. Now that someone has invented guns, I grant you the right to carry them wherever you like”?

Carrying guns is not a God-given right; it’s a government-given right, no matter where you stand on the subject of gun control.

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