Listen to Detective John Romano's 54-minute recording
At least three more City Council members have now heard the tape of City Manager Kimball Payne confronting a local police detective who criticized him during a public meeting.
Mayor Joan Foster and Councilman Jeff Helgeson offered starkly different takes on the 54-minute recording, which was made without the city manager’s knowledge and is now at the center of a $500,000 lawsuit against the city.
“It wasn’t good,” said Helgeson. “I think it needs to be clear to our employees that as citizens they have the freedom to speak without intimidation … This is a fundamental issue. They should not feel threatened if they come forward and speak.”
Mayor Foster said that while parts of the conversation were “intensified,” she felt by the end it was “very civil, almost friendly.”
“The whole thing that someone would tape someone else secretly is the biggest shocker to me,” she said. “Not that someone lost their temper. I’ve done that.”
Foster said she had been unaware prior to this that it was legal to secretly record a conversation.
Vice Mayor Bert Dodson also said he’s listened to the tape since last week, but declined to comment further, citing the pending litigation.
Detective John Romano has filed a federal suit against the city, alleging he was harassed and intimidated after appearing before City Council to express concern about the city manager’s handling of the budget.
Romano recorded a meeting during which Payne told him that such behavior is “gonna make a difference in your career, and you’ll never be able to prove it didn’t.”
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Payne later in the taped conversation apologized and said he did not plan to “do anything” to Romano. The city manager has also since publicly apologized and said he lost his temper.
Council was briefed on this situation behind closed doors nearly three months later. The description of the purpose of that session, held on June 23, said officials would be discussing “probable litigation concerning personnel matters involving constitutional issues.”
Several members say the report they heard at that time was not detailed. Council was told there was a recording, but it was not played for them and members say they did not ask to hear it.
“The appropriate thing in a situation like that is to let the city attorney manage the lawsuit,” said Councilman Michael Gillette. “We shouldn’t be managing lawsuits.”
Gillette said earlier this week he had not listened to the tape, but might do so now that council has received copies of the lawsuit.
The city attorney said his office received the court papers through the mail last Friday afternoon. Copies of the documents were distributed to council during their regular meeting the following Tuesday. The city has 30 days from its receipt of the papers to file a response.
Gillette said he had not wanted to listen to the tape prior to reading the allegations. “I didn’t want to do it piecemeal,” he said.
A total of four council members have confirmed hearing the recording at this point. Councilman Scott Garrett said he listened to it last week, but has declined to discuss his reaction, citing the lawsuit.
Garrett has said he feels the tape raises “personnel issues” that should be addressed by council. Officials discussed that point during their last meeting and decided to handle it during the city manager’s upcoming review on Sept. 8, which Garrett said he was satisfied with.
“We accomplished what I wanted and that was to make sure it was on the front burner,” he said. “We do need to discuss this.”
Garrett added he has not “prejudged” anyone and is looking forward to discussing the situation with the city manager and other council members in September.
Councilman Helgeson sought unsuccessfully to get the issue before council this week, rather than next month, and said he felt other members had shown a “lack of leadership” by delaying things.
“I think we need to get to the bottom of this,” he said. “The sooner the better.”
Councilmen Turner Perrow and Ceasor Johnson both said this week they had not yet heard the lawsuit recording. Perrow said he planned to listen to it before the city manager’s evaluation. Johnson said he expected he would listen to it at some point.
In response to a question, Johnson said he was uncertain how the contents of the tape might affect his evaluation of Payne. He said this was only one episode in a longer record of service and added he felt it was unfair to record someone without their knowledge, which he described as “underhanded and conniving.”
“Frankly, I don’t think much of someone who would do that,” he said. “If you’re a man, be a man. If you’ve got something to say, put it out on the table. I hate for one person to have an advantage over another.”
Helgeson, in a separate interview, said he had been impressed with Romano and his courage in speaking out against the city’s highest administrator.
“I thought, wow, that is character for somebody to come forward like that,” he said. “… I said, hey, you’re a man.”
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